A Frank Discussion with Women in Tech
The state of the industry and how we need to change it.
In conversation with..
Our panellists gave us a few thoughts on where they see the status of women in AI at this moment in time
Amanda: As a woman working in AI I think it’s a well known fact there a few of us, about 15%, and this lack of diversity is holding AI back.
Ayori: The largest barrier is that so many people are unaware of the bias that women experience all over the world, not just in AI and technology. One example of a high profile exit is Dr Timnit Gebru formerly of Google. She was one of the two women leading Google’s ethical AI team, and she was fired for being vocally outspoken against prejudice and diversity. Dr Gebru is an influential leader in AI but she had overcome many barriers of being a minority woman in a male dominated field, also being an immigrant and a African. The largest barrier is that women like Dr Gebru can be so easily ousted from their positions of impact.
What barriers are women facing in AI and technology industries today?
Amanda: When I told my mother that I wanted to study computer science she literally said “Oh god please no” That’s just for boys. We have the stereotype that tech and AI is heavily dominated by men, it’s a strange area to be working in it if you’re not very confident and comfortable with being the only woman in the room most of the time. AI has a problem with retention of women and so even women who do get into AI end up leaving very soon after.
I wonder to what extent the problem is whether the culture doesn’t work for women.
Why aren’t there more women working in the AI and tech industry?
Ayori: If you plant a seed you’ve got to water it and nourish it, give it visibility to sunshine. Women work hard in a male dominated education path to get into that workplace, hoping meritocracy will work from there. But there’s poison in her water every time she speaks up and challenges the status quo and the power structure.
If you’re a woman in technology its okay if you’re quiet but as soon as you speak up and want to lead, her water ‘gets poisoned’.
We need support from our male and non-binary partners and make sure they stand up for us and make a safe space.
Women have a tendency to bring everyone up as they go. That’s why it’s proven that organisations with women on their board of Directors actually make more money and they’re more successful.
Oriana: When women go to an interview panel and its predominantly men it can be quite intimidating. Not a lot of companies have in place good maternity leave. Women have to look around for companies that offer the maternity leave they’re looking for, whereas that’s not a barrier that men have to think about.
Women are often not appreciated for talking their mind, Meghan Markle was subjected to racism and sexism in the media for speaking out.
Anie: Another barrier is personal life in terms of children, we need companies to be more supportive of how women lead their lives. Some take these into consideration when emergencies come up but we need companies to have policies on it. Upon returning from maternity leave, if companies offered something that was flexible for them then they wouldn’t lose as many women in the long-run.
What role does intersectionality play for women in the industry?
Oriana: When you look at the statistics you’ll see the majority are white women in the space, we need to look at how these big techs are recruiting and how the recruiters are considering intersectionality.
Ayori:
Intersectionality itself does not create challenges, it’s humans who ignore the importance of intersectionality that create challenges for women.
Intersectionality is the experience of being a part of multiple different communities that are consistently impacted by bias and marginalisation, like classism, sexism, racism, ableism. There’s a little bit of poison put in the water every day for being a woman, but if you’re an immigrant there’s also a little bit put in for that. It’s important to consider the different experiences of different women, that is what is necessary to help others.
How can we hold tech companies accountable for their sexism?
Ayori: Having policies that create safety for people when they report bad behaviour or psychologically unsafe conditions. What we have to do is create more accountability so that when someone reports something they are protected. We need whistleblowers to ensure that unregulated industries are held accountable.
Organisations need to be able to put in metrics, like reporting on earnings every quarter, on their diversity and inclusion numbers, on performance statistics and growth.
Anie: A lot of people don’t think that they have any bias. I’m a big believer in training people to think about things they didn’t think could be a problem. And numbers tell the story too. Even though people are getting into the industry they are also leaving, so yes the numbers are going to show that they’ve hired so many but how many left from that? And why did they leave?
Let’s talk about tokenism
Ayori: Tokenism is a great example of putting poison in the water. People get chosen for all sorts of reasons, including having friends in the company. We need to refuse to be seen as tokens, we are individuals with talent.
Anie:
The word tokenism often crops up for black people. It’s the assumption you’re there because you’re black, asian or a woman. Not accounting for the knowledge or the skillset that they have been hired for. They don’t lack something, they have different skill sets.
The more diverse the team the better, better products with diverse mindsets. Diversity allows you to have a better business and be more successful in the business.
What would the industry gain by having a greater inclusivity and representation of women?
Amanda: In terms of building systems, if you have a tiny group of men then you’re obviously missing out on a huge part of the population.
Oriana: There are so many things that are niche to a woman that a man isn’t going to be able to understand, a woman can bring a perspective. If a man is building a period-tracking app its not going to have the same usability that is going to be needed for a woman. It’s the same with disabled people.
There isn’t the tech built for people with disabilities, because there hasn’t been the representation.
It’s a shame to think we have a world with so many diverse cultures and diverse opinions, we need to have everyone represented in everything we are using.
What can companies do?
Anie: I think companies should be investing in programmes that are specific to women, build programmes for internship opportunities. It needs to start from younger years. Sponsorship dedicated to women in AI. They’ll be in the community and they’ll get information from the community to build these programmes better. They can build for the future.
Oriana: Training in diversity and inclusion in terms of HR is extremely important in how these companies combat biases. Looking at amazing coding schools aimed at women, these are the companies we should look to.
If we don’t make a specific effort we are not going to see women coming into these industries.
Ayori: When you have repeated reports about someone and their behaviour being inappropriate you have to take it seriously.
We also need to look at the glass ceiling. Where do we see the cut-off happening? When we introduce more women in the organisation we need to look at where they drop off, where do they start to exit?
We have to protect women who stand up and speak out. Oftentimes when a man is outspoken we say that he is a strong advocate for this or that, but when women speak up she’s rubbing people the wrong way. She’s aggressive. Dr Gebru is a great example.
We have to ask what we are losing when we are not doing that. That’s why we need to put measures in place to monitor what we are losing when we do not have women there in power.
What role does the media play?
Ayori: Whenever we talk about men in power, why don’t we ever talk about the women that were in their lives? Most of my male colleagues have wives that don’t work. They’re actually the reason that person is successful. We need to talk about this.
Bill: Even though we have had two female Prime Minister’s we still lag massively behind other societies in terms of percentage of female inclusion. What are we doing wrong?
Ayori: Biden is succeeding because of the Vice President choice he made in Pamela Harris.
Biden was intentional about making sure that he puts on the website Biden Harris administration, it’s the first time in history that someone playing a significant supporting role was put on the same level. He put Pamela Harris visibly where he is, this is important.
We need to banish this hierarchical way of thinking of leadership and make sure we are representing women as equal to the most powerful person in the room, all the time.
Speaking of role models, why are role models important?
Anie: 10 years ago we were not seeing as many women or black women in the tech space, or Indian women. We have seen an increase in these images, and this allows people to aspire and dream towards it. These images are important to children as they grown up and see people in roles. We need to allow them to see they can be in that role.
Ayori: If you have more women founders who are getting the equity and support they need to grow fast that’s how you get more leaders and change cultures and industries. We need to tell the stories of women like Lovelace and Hopper. Tell the stories of the women who created the men that you respect and admire. Stop marginalising them. Stand up for equity for women.
Anie: Another thing is that a lot of women have the experience but they’re quite happy being out of the spotlight. So it’s not that they need to be at the forefront but we need to allow the community to see where they are at, and encourage those women to bring more women into AI, coding.
As women we need to help build for the future what we may not have received when moving up through the ranks.
Amanda: Seeing other women has been really important for me staying in the field. I’m optimistic that in the future we will have more equality but its going to be hard work. We need more legislation where companies have to show their numbers, that’s going to be important. Media representation and role models is going to be a big part of being able to see yourself in that role.
